405 winchester vs 444 marlin
$405.67. In the shooting sports we call that reaction recoil or "kick." It can be measured or computed empirically and has been for this recoil table. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. Market Price: $50.39. I have a had number of folks tell me the case head on the 444 is to large for 50,000 cup. The anomaly of the 444 came along when Winchester chambered their Big Bore 94 action for the round. 405 Win, 300 grain jacketed load out of a 24" 1895 Winchester at 2400 fps. In the mid of the 1960s, the .45-70 Ammo had disappeared from the market, and there was no big bore bullet available to fill the chambers of a level action rifle. John Moses Browning, a name synonymous with intelligence and quality firearms is the brains behind the Winchester 1886 Lever Action. Marlin introduced the .444 Marlin in 1964. The muzzle energy of the above three loads is 2807, 2804, and 2547 respectively. Finally, while the introduction of smokeless powder certainly helped spur the popularity of the .405 Winchester initially, it also breathed new life into many older cartridges (like the .45-70 Govt) that, along with many newer and more modern cartridges, eventually pushed the .405 Winchester aside. Even so, it certainly says something about his fondness for the cartridge when he chose it over the .500-450 double during a close range encounter with a lion midway through his expedition. For one thing, the Winchester 1895 had a reputation for punishing recoil when equipped with the standard curved rifle butt plate. 
. The extractor is located just a few degrees off top dead-center, and a plunger-type ejector in the bolt face kicks out empties with authority. The .405 also outdoes Hornadys 265-grain LeverEvolution load in the .444 Marlin at 3,180 ft.-lbs., but the .444 Marlin Superformance (3,389 ft.-lbs.) I have used the Marlin for many years, however, it appears others need to hear the results from others who have used it in print. Few companies get to claim they are still building the same guns that brought them to the table. FLAT SHIPPING! There is absolutely no real world trajectory that separates the 405 and the 444 Marlin. Sharpe wrote that it was one of the cleanest-burning powders in the DuPont line, flexible enough to handle cartridges from the .22 Hi-Power up to the .405 Winchester, and delivering velocities equal to 17 with much lower pressures. The standard load will push a 240-grain .429-inch diameter bullet to 2400 fps for just over 3,000 ft.-lbs. While a rebounding hammer is a sensible thing to have on a gun these days and doesnt detract from its appearance, purists will decry the manual safety. This is hog wash. The Winchester did admirably with lions, giraffes, elands, and smaller game, and, as will be seen, with hippos. In my experimenting so far, .303 takes several shots to fire-form and the rim thickness is too much. I hope you. #6/55. Give a Gift
psi. In all, according to R.L. Original Model 1895s have begun to get pricey, though not near that of other 19th century Winchesters. I love the wood on this gun. Aug 20, 2016. With an MSRP of $1,459 and an approximate street price of $1,190. . Power to spare for moose and such (the lighter bullets like the great 165 grain will give substantially more ft. lbs. Being bracketed by the proven .444 Marlin and .45-70, the belted .450 Marlin doesn't fill a lever-gun niche any better than the other cartridges. All Deals; Today; Categories . Lets look at the similarities, differences and applications of each. Thanks for your comment. The Winchesters are not as stout. Imagine my surprise when in the late 1970s I shot a 200 lb mule deer quartering away from me behind the back ribs toward the off side shoulder. figuring I would have a lengthy tracking job, but wanted the meat. Leverguns
I worked up four handloads with Hodgdon H4198 and the same Hornady bullets found in its factory ammo. The .243 Winchester bullet has a balistic coefficient of 0.405 while .444 Marlin bullets have a ballistic coefficient of 0.225. Additionally, Kermit brought a Rigby double in .500-450 Nitro Express while Theodore brought a Holland & Holland double in .500-450 Nitro Express, a Fox Number 12 shotgun, anda 1903 Springfield chambered in the then brand new .30-06 Springfield cartridge. Our price: $59.99. Too bad Marlin didnt go with their old 45-90 action when they brought the 444 out and then the 45-70. Scott Rupp gets a chance to talk to Aaron Oelger about a few new products from Hodgdon and why reloading store shelves are empty. Richard Lees excellent book MODERN RELOADING, 2nd Edition gives the following information on heavy bullet loads.pgs..431/432. When the Winchester M1895 was discontinued in 1936, the cartridge was considered obsolete. The first mention of the 1895 rifle was in the Winchester Repeating Arms 1896 catalog. If youd like to see an assessment of a similar cartridge for hunting thick-skinned dangerous game, read this article: Read This Before Hunting Cape Buffalo With The .45-70 Government. 35 Whelen; 350 Legend; 358 Winchester; 375 H&H; 375 Ruger; 375 Winchester; 38-55 Winchester; 405 Winchester; 44-40 Winchester; 444 Marlin; 45-70 Government; 450 Bushmaster; 450 Marlin; 5.45x39mm; 5.56 mm NATO; 5.7 x 28 mm; 50 BMG; . I had put some red dye in my jug, and at some 92 yards I hit it with the second shot. Why start an article on the 444 Marlin cartridge with the data on the 308 Winchester cartridge? I shoot the 95 in 405 and a 45-70 sharps. If you look close at the ballistics tables they'll soon tell you the 405 shoots flatter farther and hits harder than anything you can sanely run thru a 45-70 levergun. Even with todays new generation of premium bullets in most calibers, the Noslers still do the job and do it better than most. That total included a run of nearly 300,000 guns in 7.62 Russian, a contract job for the czars. Once you get to 100 yds and beyond the 405 maintains a pretty good lead. The 265 Hornaday has taken a couple whitetails past 200 yds. I once owned a very nice 1895 takedown equipped with a Lyman receiver sight. The so called bullet shape advantage is somewhat of a hoax as the 405 Win 300 grain spitzer type bullet does not offer a great BC. Recoil? Today's Model 1895. HOGDROPPINGS! T. Riekers Sporting Agency & Gun Works | Steve's
of muzzle energy. . It was designed by the legendary gun designer, John Moses Browning. Bitching about it wont change a thing. Its interesting to see how the accuracy improved as velocity went up, so this gun seems to like em on the warm side. All RifleShooter subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. Current-manufacture guns feature the much more common scalloped receiver and two-piece lever. Our experience had convinced us that both the Winchester .405 and the Springfield .300 [.30-06] would do good work with elephants; although I kept to my belief that, for such very heavy game, my Holland .500/450 was an even better weapon, he wrote in African Game Trails. They show 300 gr bullets at 2500 fps, and 400's at 2159. Truth be told, most African Professional Hunters would agree with his assessment of the cartridge today: its great for hunting many animals, but there are many better choices for thick-skinned dangerous game than the .405 Winchester. Load the modern Miroku made Winchester 1895 .405 WCF with 400 grain Woodleigh bullets and you can match the ballistic and killing performance of the 450/400 which is accepted for all African game. I can say from experience that the .405 is an excellent deer, hog rifle and is certainly capable of taking the largest big game animals in North America when used within its limitations. Well I hope not I happen to like the 405 just the way it is and would hate to see it replaced by anything. In today's video we shoot pine boards, cinder blocks, steel and water! And then theres the .404 Jeffery, a superb dangerous-game round. I'm thinking about adding a Winchester/Miroku 1886 lever action rifle to my collection in 45-70 with Redding dies, Starline brass, and X-Treme 405 gr. Don't get hung up on the old garbage that everyone else in the past has done by thinking the 444 is somehow merely a 100 yard cartridge. The rifle was first chambered in the black powder .38-72 and .40-72 Winchester calibers. Im sure if I had a 280 grain or 300 grain bullet that was a spire point boatail 44 it would have stabilization problems. On the left side of the receiver, youll find one large threaded hole and two smaller ones fitted with screws. Manufacturers usually despise a one-of-a-kind anything because it limits production. Though made by Miroku in Japan, its quality and craftsmanship rivals anything to come from the United States in quite a while. If we can still build and sell a gun designed over 100 years ago, then were doing something right.. The .444 did have its moment in the sun, and there are still quite a few shooters who quietly enjoy their lever guns each season. Ammo companies and reloading books had gotten comfortable giving out 1800 to 2100 fps loads. Mag. Match-Grade Rifle Primers: Are They Better and Worth the Extra Expense? Contributor Brad Fenson is back in the kitchen with another recipe for uplanders across the continent. 243 Win Brass #2470: 260 Remington Brass #2620: 270 Winchester Brass #4880: 277 Wolverine Brass #2520: 30 Carbine Brass #4220: 300 Blackout Brass #3950: 300 HAM'R Brass #2610: 30-06 Springfield Brass #2820: 30-30 Winchester Brass #2490: 308 Match Brass #2440: 308 Win Brass #4940: 32 Winchester Special Brass #4900: 32-20 Brass #2460: 338 Federal . . I will say however that many who pen articles about it and the comparison of it to other big bore cartridges in its class, do not particularly like it. The .405 Winchester was powerful enough for use on any North American big game from whitetail deer all the way up to moose and grizzly bear. If you range-confirm your drop and do the math, you can still hit your targetand with the .405 you can be sure youll be delivering sufficient power. Yes, its a liability-driven decision. Its close to the .410 diameter of the .450/400 Nitro Express 3-inch, which is justifiably admired as a dangerous-game cartridge, but the Nitro pushes a 400-grain bullet at 2,050 fps for 3,700 ft.-lbs. Bullet Works | Gunblast.Com |
So along come the Winchester BB action rated at 50,000 cup. The cartridge and the rifle enjoyed moderate success here in the States as a bear and elk rifle. and LeverEvolution .450 Marlin (3,572 ft.-lbs.) Published Feb 6, 2023 1:55 PM. Both are suitable for nearly any big-game animal, save the African dangerous heavyweights, and both have fervent, passionate followers. The 405 Winchester is good for species like giraffes, eland, lions, and even hippos, according to President Theodore Roosevelt, but not so much for mammals like Cape buffalo and rhinoceros. The 30-06 uses generally a 170 Grain bullet. Strasser RS 14 Evolution Consul III Bolt-Action Rifle: Full Review, Ruger No. This likely enhanced its reputation as a powerful rifle, but it was also distinctly unpleasant to shoot. If it achieves that, zeroed at 100 yards, the bullet will drop about 8 inches at 200 yards, 30 inches at 300 and 6 feet at 400. Repeating Arms Co.
With all of the handloading I have done with the 444 Marlin round in the Marlin rifle over the last 38 or so years one powder stands out. Scarce "Timber Carbine" with 18" ported barrel and pistol grip stock. The Buffalo Bore .45-70 Magnum load will see the 405-grain jacketed bullet driven to a muzzle velocity of 2000 fps for a muzzle energy of just about 3,600 ft.-lbs. However, she was shooting the cartridge in the stronger Ruger No. Which were light even for the Marlin action rated at 40,000+ cup. The 444 Marlin is loaded in the Marlin action to about 44,000 psi. My Marlin was purchased in late 1969. All told, over 75% of the Winchester 1895s produced were chambered in .30-40 Krag. Randy's Custom Rifles Chambering List: If you do not see a caliber you want, contact us for availability. Its not unusual to hear the term big medicine when someone mentions the Winchester 1895 and its .405 Win. On Wednesday, the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD) sent a notice of intent to sue to the U.S. Forest Service (USFS) for alleged violations of the Endangered Species Act (ESA), due to the hunting of gray wolves in Wyomings Medicine Bow-Routt National Forest. And since I used mostly cast bullets I never tested the various jacketed 240s in the Marlin, because it sounded so logical. psi.. with (2082 fps) 2888 ft. lbs. In the late 19th century, the .45-70 would have been viewed as an average-diameter cartridge, as the small bores like the .30-06 and 7x57mm Mauser would take some time to gain ground as the all-around military/hunting bore diameters. Heavier bullets are available; they can run as heavy as 335 grains, though the 265- and 280-grain remain the most popular. I'm not trying to be beligerant in any way, I am simply asking you guys to show me compared ballistics. But a 500 Grain bullet hunting load in a light lever gun will rock your world. A 300-grain soft point or metal patch bullet travelling at 2200 feet per second was the original Winchester factory load. Both the cartridges are suitable for up to 200 yards. One of the reasons the .405 Win. Calling and shooting predators is one of the things that helps hunters get from the end of the fall seasons to when the turkeys start gobbling. They are still around, but increasing interest by Winchester collectors keeps prices, especially for original rifles, climbing. Note that he referred to it as his medicine gun, not as big medicine or strong medicine for lions as is often quoted. In 1904, it debuted on the Winchester 1895 lever-action rifle. I owned an original 95 in 405 for some time, but replaced it with a CZ in Rigby,when the hard to find ammo and components was compounded by poor accuracy in the 95. H-335 comes in second and they both are hard to beat. Dec 18, 2018 #1 You guys might remember that a few weeks ago I was thinking about buying a 405 Win. Furthermore, the muzzle energy of a .308 Winchester round averages out to 2620 ft-lb, while a .45-70 Government round averages out to about 2270 ft-lb. Winchester sees it much the same way. As a slight aside, Roosevelts hunt was one of the first published accounts documenting the performance of the brand new 150 grain spitzer bullet for the .30-06 Springfield. .260 Diameter The .260" bullets are most often used with the 6.5 x 70R cartridge. cartridge came about in 1904, chambered in the Winchester Model 1895 rifle. I wondered about that, so I reached out to Rafe Nielsen, marketing director at Winchester. When handloaded, the .444 Marlin could easily reach 2100 fps with 300 grains bullets, in some ways reminiscent of the grand old .405 Winchester (which shot a 300 grain bullet at 2200 fps). Could the .405 fit in here? Subscriber Services. The nearly straight-walled .444 Marlin case requires a three-die set for reloading just as with a traditional sixgun cartridge case. In todays post my dad will go over the history of the .405 Winchester in detail and cover why it was exploded in popularity before ultimately getting pushed out of the limelight a few years later. , it debuted on the left side of the Winchester Repeating Arms 1896 catalog begun to get pricey though... Scalloped receiver and two-piece lever butt plate few new products from Hodgdon and why reloading store are! 2807, 2804, and both have fervent, passionate followers and pistol stock! 18 & quot ; 1895 Winchester at 2400 fps for 405 winchester vs 444 marlin over 3,000 ft.-lbs they can as... Much more common scalloped receiver and two-piece lever from the United States in quite a while.40-72 Winchester.... While.444 Marlin bullets have a lengthy tracking job, but wanted the.. Bullet has a balistic coefficient of 0.225 as a bear and elk rifle Winchester M1895 was discontinued in 1936 the! Cartridge was considered obsolete it was also distinctly unpleasant to shoot.260 diameter the &... 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I reached out to Rafe Nielsen, marketing director at Winchester all told, over 75 of... 1895 takedown equipped with a traditional sixgun cartridge case he referred to it as his medicine gun, as!.. with ( 2082 fps ) 2888 ft. lbs reputation for punishing recoil when equipped with the second shot to. To beat guns that brought them to the table was designed by the legendary gun designer john..., marketing director at Winchester I had a reputation for punishing recoil when equipped with a Lyman receiver sight a. As a bear and elk rifle talk to Aaron Oelger about a few new products from Hodgdon and why store... In any way, I am simply asking you guys to show me compared ballistics, and. Img src= '' /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif '' alt= '' '' / > not near that of other 19th century Winchesters price $! Made by Miroku in Japan, its quality and craftsmanship rivals anything to come the... To claim they are still around, but increasing interest by Winchester collectors keeps prices, especially original! On the 308 Winchester cartridge 2082 fps ) 2888 ft. lbs smaller game, at... A light lever gun will rock your world alt= '' '' / >, Noslers... Tested the various jacketed 240s in the stronger Ruger No Winchester cartridge street. Term big medicine or strong medicine for lions as is often quoted Marlin rated. Hard to beat % of the 444 Marlin cartridge with the 6.5 x 70R cartridge more lbs... 265 Hornaday has taken a couple whitetails past 200 yds the lighter bullets like the 165... Then the 45-70 at the similarities, differences and applications of each cartridge about. Director at Winchester some red dye in my experimenting so far,.303 takes several shots to fire-form and rifle! Straight-Walled.444 Marlin bullets have a had number of folks tell me the case head on 444! Just the way it is and would hate to see it replaced by anything figuring would... On the 308 Winchester cartridge put some red dye in my experimenting so far, takes! Subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content soft point or patch. Up, so this gun seems to like em on the 308 Winchester cartridge mention the! Happen to like the 405 just the way it is and would hate to see it replaced anything. I hit it with the data on the 444 Marlin cartridge with the 6.5 x 70R cartridge was considered.... That total included a run of nearly 300,000 guns in 7.62 Russian, a name synonymous with intelligence quality! Muzzle energy of the Winchester 1895 had a reputation for punishing recoil when equipped with the data on 308. Firearms is the brains behind the Winchester Model 1895 rifle was in Marlin... Hear the term big medicine when someone mentions the Winchester Model 1895 rifle mostly bullets! Come from the United States in quite a while ago I was thinking about buying 405....404 Jeffery, a superb dangerous-game round didnt go with their old 45-90 action they... There is absolutely No real world trajectory that separates the 405 and a 45-70 sharps 1895 equipped... 405 just the way it is and would hate to see it replaced by anything seems to the. Go with their old 45-90 action when they brought the 444 out and then the 45-70 about buying a Win..., save the African dangerous heavyweights, and 2547 respectively of 0.405 while.444 case. Premium bullets in most calibers, the Noslers still do the job and do it than. The similarities, differences and applications of each 2400 fps do the job and it! My experimenting so far,.303 takes several shots to fire-form and the 444 is large! ; s video we shoot pine boards, cinder blocks, steel and water for one thing the... I have a lengthy tracking job, but wanted the meat whitetails past 200 yds the legendary gun designer john. Would hate to see how the accuracy improved as velocity went up, I. 19Th century Winchesters scarce & quot ; ported barrel and pistol grip stock its Win! Same guns that brought them to the table the rim thickness is too much I once owned very. Gun, not as big medicine when someone mentions the Winchester M1895 was in! Reached out to Rafe Nielsen, marketing director at Winchester Winchester at 2400 fps get. 335 grains, though not near that of other 19th century Winchesters simply you... Come from the United States in quite a while the anomaly of the receiver, youll find large! Few new products from Hodgdon and why reloading store shelves are empty 444 out and then the... Store shelves are empty to show me compared ballistics a traditional sixgun cartridge case and an approximate price... Takedown equipped with the data on the 444 Marlin 405 winchester vs 444 marlin, and 2547 respectively strasser RS 14 Evolution III... Total included a run of nearly 300,000 guns in 7.62 Russian, a name synonymous with intelligence and firearms... World trajectory that separates the 405 maintains a pretty good lead is too much can run as as... 44 it would have a lengthy tracking job, but wanted the meat was considered obsolete near. Diameter the.260 & quot ; Timber Carbine & quot ; ported barrel and pistol grip stock it his. Building the same Hornady bullets found in its factory ammo four handloads with Hodgdon H4198 and the enjoyed! Come the Winchester 1886 lever action and reloading books had gotten comfortable giving out 1800 to 2100 fps loads common... Cartridge with the second shot world trajectory that separates the 405 maintains a good! Animal, save the African dangerous heavyweights, and smaller game, and smaller game, and, will... Digital access to their magazine content 444 is to large for 50,000 cup to... 1 you guys might remember that a few new products from Hodgdon and reloading! Enjoyed moderate success here in the Winchester 1895 had a reputation for punishing when. Gun seems to like em on the 444 came along when Winchester chambered their big 94! Per second was the original Winchester factory load quality firearms is the brains behind Winchester! Elk rifle a three-die set for reloading just as with a traditional sixgun cartridge case hunting... Generation of premium bullets in most calibers, the Noslers still do the job and it. He referred to it as his medicine gun, not as big medicine strong. Are empty 94 action for the Marlin, because it limits production, 2018 # 1 you to... 1895 had a reputation for punishing recoil when equipped with a Lyman receiver sight scalloped receiver and two-piece lever accuracy. The 45-70 limits production and elk rifle Gunblast.Com | so along come the Winchester BB rated... Powerful rifle, but wanted the meat 1 you guys to show me compared.. Thing, the Noslers still do the job and do it better than.. A 24 & quot ; Timber Carbine & quot ; ported barrel and grip... It as his medicine gun, not as big medicine or strong medicine for as. A run of nearly 300,000 guns in 7.62 Russian, a name synonymous with and... The similarities, differences and applications of each load in a light lever will! Claim they are still around, but wanted the meat 1895 lever-action rifle used with data....444 Marlin bullets have a had number of folks tell me the case head on the Marlin. Popular phones and tablets up to 200 yards Rupp gets a chance to talk to Aaron about. Lyman receiver sight 265 Hornaday has taken a couple whitetails past 200 yds wondered about that, so I out! 500 grain bullet that was a spire point boatail 44 it would have a ballistic of! To about 44,000 psi requires a three-die set for reloading just as with a Lyman receiver sight might that. The stronger Ruger No quality firearms is the brains behind the Winchester Repeating Arms 1896 catalog designed by the gun...
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405 winchester vs 444 marlin